Florida State University will test every building on campusfor mold and radon,administratorssaid last week to a skeptical crowd of faculty and graduate assistants in a Zoom town hall.
Throughout the two-hour long meeting, administratorsaddressed concernsregarding the Sandels Building, inquiries about a breakdown in communication and what the university plans to do for those who worked in buildings that may later be deemed unsafe.
"We are trying to move with due haste," said FSU President Richard McCullough at the beginning of the meeting."Our goal is to look at every building on campus."
Thecampus-wide effort will begin with an industrial hygienist who willcomplete a walkthrough before "a full and complete assessment" is finalized, saidKyle Clark, vice president for finance and administration.
Then thehygienist and a team working directly with contractorswill fixany issues found in the buildings.If there is mold in any HVAC systems, a contractor will be hired to remediate whileanother group makessure the cleaning crewmeets the specification of the contract, Kyle said.
Administrators includingMcCullough, Kyle Clark and Provost Jim Clarkdid not know when this process will begin.
However,testing for radon— a naturally-occurringradioactive gas — has begun in at least four buildings: Sandels, Williams, Rogers —which houses the office of business services — and theChild Care and Early Learning facility.
This all comes more than a month after the Sandels Building was initially closed following the release of a faculty report that listed health concerns including mold, radon, chemicals and a possible cancer cluster.
"In the Sandels building we are going to do whatever it takes," McCullough said. "If we have to level the building, we'll level the building."
Sandels coverage:
- 'We're scared': Current, former Florida State employees, students scramble after Sandels faculty report
- Preliminary findings: 'Elevated levels of radon' found in Florida State's Sandels Building
- Florida State probes air quality concerns in another building; some faculty shift to remote classes
- After faculty point to 3 cancer deaths, FSU closes building with reported black mold, radon
Preliminary reports: Elevated levels of radon in Sandels; others show low levels
Preliminary radon measurements in the Williams, Rogers andchild care building were below 3.5pCi/L, or PicoCuriesper liter of air—all beneath the Environmental Protection Agency's 4pCi/L exposure limit inresidential settings.
An early February radon evaluation in the Sandels Building recorded somesecond-floor classroomsbetween4.8and 7pCi/L.Throughout thebasem*nt, contractorsmeasured levels between 2.5 and 5.4 pCi/L.
Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the United States, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.
Furthermore, lung cancer risk rises 16% per 2.7 pCi/L increase in radon exposure,says the Radon Information Center.
According to their individual websites, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration's permissible radon-exposure limitis 100 pCi/L andthe U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission's is 30 pCi/L— statistics mentioned frequently through the meeting, which faculty read as a tactic to minimize the problem.
"What we're told is 'Uh, don't worry about it,' but how do I know right now that I don't have a lump of cancerous cells forming in the lining of my lungs?" said one faculty member, who worked near the location where the highest radon measurement in Sandels was found.
At their request, the Democrat is not usingthe name of faculty quoted in thisstory because they fear possibleretaliation regarding their tenure tracks and current positions. Each hasbeen verified as aFlorida State University employee.
Mold exposure: McCullough saysit's harmless
The next steps regarding the Sandels Building will not be decided untilfollow-up radon testing is finished,administrators said.
"Right now, we're tryingto clean everything up and replace some HVAC systems that are not at the same level of operation as they used to be," McCullough said. "I don't think (the mold)was particularly dangerous, but it certainly should be cleaned out and maybe should have been cleaned out a long time ago."
The moldmost oftendetected wasCladosporium, which is generally harmless but in rare cases can cause allergies or worsenasthma.That was found in "abundance"on two fourth-floor air filters, according toareport completed by the California laboratory Aemtek.
"No amount of mold growing in an HVAC system is considered to be acceptable; it's a sign of degradation of materials," said Dr. David Krause, a certified industrial hygienist and licensed mold assessor, who sat inon last week's meeting.
That said, "with this type of mold, on any given day, you're exposed to more of it outdoors than you are ... in a building where it's growing," he added.
New hoods being installed in Sandels;experts 'not impressed' with their condition
Another concern laid out in the129-page report was about obsolete, deteriorating, chemical fume hoods and unknown chemicals being stored in the building's fourth-floor labs.
Dr. Christopher Teaf, a board-certified toxicologist, said he looked through three inventories of chemicals and the vast majority were innocuous or extremely common. (Teaf added that inventory paperwork has not been well preserved or stored, making it difficult to know what chemicals have been stored in the building over the past 20 years.)
There were two, however, thatcaught his attention:acrylamide andformaldehyde, which have the potential to be harmful.Though,a bigger cause for concern wasthe hoods tasked with ventilating these labs.
"We were not impressed with the hoods; some of them were quite aged," he said, before saying new hoods will be purchased and installed.
A faculty member, who has worked in the Sandels Building for 15 years, saidwhen retail merchandising was located in the building, they would burn fabrics "that would make the whole building smell for days."
She requestedthat it be looked into further:"I don't know what types of chemicals are released when you burn fabric in an enclosed building that doesn't have the appropriate ventilation."
Teaf also questioned the decision to have labs in Sandels to begin with: "We're not certain that it makes a great deal of sense to have wet labs and chemical activity ... going on in a building like Sandels, whichis really more of a teaching and a social research laboratory."
Cancer cluster questionswill 'probably not ever be solved'
Teaf said he was among many expertsin a meeting withthe Florida Department of Healthand epidemiologists from the University of Miami, to probe whether the cancer cases—especially on the fourth floor—may be linked to the building's conditions.
They did not reach astrong conclusion.
"They were unanimous in theirview that this would probably not ever be solved given the number of cases that there are, but itcertainly could be looked into," Teafsaid, adding, "I don't know if we'll get an answer about whether that's a cluster simply because the statistics and the epidemiology (is) difficult to apply."
This did not satisfy faculty, many of whom know at least one colleague who is suffering from cancer.
Onefaculty member, who is personal friends with a professor currently battling lung cancer, said, in her estimation that "the cancer clustercan't be a coincidence."
"It fills me full of rage to know (he) was such a healthy person (and) ended up with lung cancer, and has to sit through these meetings — while fighting for his life —and being told, 'Uh, it's probably not a thing.' "
'We don't believe that the senior administration knew about the level of the problem'
The faculty on the call also questioned the timeline of events.
The earliest message received by upper administration about the Sandels Building, according to McCullough, was a January 2020 email from Dr. Michael Delp, the dean of the College of Health and Human Sciences,to former provost Sally McRorie.
According to McCullough, Delp said he would reach out to EHS (Environmental Health and Safety department), to which McRorie replied, "If you don't get the response you want, let me know and I'll help you out."
"Clearly the dean of the college and the faculty knew about this for a while," McCullough said. "I can't put my hand on the bible and say this for sure, but we don't believe that the senior administration knew about the level of the problem."
The president acknowledged thatin AugustJanet Kistner, vice president for faculty development and advancement, and Vice President Kyle Clark, who oversees facilities, were made aware that there was mold in the building.
"Somehow it wasn't communicated back into the system that there was any enhanced level of concern, and certainly I didn't know of it," McCullough said, before providing an anecdote that some faculty members later described as "insulting" and "a bit concerning."
"If somebody says to Vice President Clark, 'Hey, there's mold in the Sandels Building,' he says, 'Yeah, there's mold in all the buildings,' " McCullough said. "You ... kind of have to say it the right way, because there's mold in every building in Florida."
According to the faculty report released in January,the university refused to pay for testing for the black particles found on desks and chairs in the Sandels Building.So the college funded an independent evaluation of the air quality, which was completed in August.
Kyle Clark saidhe and the provost were aware of the mold testing; this leaves a few months' gap between the assessment and the building's shutdown in January when the extent of the problem and concern about a potential cancer cluster became fully known.
"When we finish this and get it all done, one of the things we want to do is go back and do a forensic analysis and figure out where the breakdown in communication occurred," McCullough said.
After this article published, a university spokesperson noted that in September, the university hired an outside contractor to clean the air ducts in Sandels.
More:After faculty point to 3 cancer deaths, FSU closes building with reported black mold, radon
Faculty member to McCullough: 'What will be (FSU's) obligation to the faculty and staff?'
Many current and former faculty, staff and graduate assistants, especially of the Sandels Building, were made aware of the health concerns through initial news stories.This has left many in a state of anxietyabout the potential health effectsthey face as a result of working there.
Before McCullough left the meeting Friday to throw the opening pitch at the firsthome baseball game, he faced his most direct questionthat emphasized this very anxiety: "If you do receive test results indicating working conditions in Sandelswere unsafe, what will be your obligations to the faculty and staff who've worked there?"
He replied,saying the university will help people with workers' compensationclaims, which go through the state, in addition togivingthem a place to work while the building is being investigated and the option to return or not.
Replying to a follow-up, McCullough did not know if workers' compensationlaw prohibited the university from doing "anything above and beyond workman's comp to take care of the faculty or students who have been affected."
"I don't know the answer to that question," McCullough replied. "It's a great question, and I am not trying to dodge you.It's complicated and so we're trying to figure out the best way to make it easy for everybody."
Kyle Clark added that the university is working with the Florida Department of Financial Services and the Department of Health "to address a number of these issues."
After the meeting theprofessor who asked the follow-up question said she found these replies "disturbing," because, in her estimation, theuniversity can do whatever it deems appropriatefor the exposed faculty—like set up a pension fund.
"Just saying this is a (worker's) comp thingis shifting responsibility," she said. "This administration has the opportunity to handle this well and do what's right and it doesn't seem like they're willing to do that."
Contact Christopher Cann at ccann@tallahassee.com and follow @ChrisCannFL on Twitter.
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